#835 - Louis Theroux

At a Glance

• Dealing with Oppressive Regimes and Cults - “I don’t want to be trapped into a paradigm of us against them. I want to see the human in you.” Louis emphasizes the importance of treating people with kindness and empathy, even when dealing with oppressive regimes or cults.

• The Dangers of Groupthink - “Ideologies become problematic when you can’t escape, you can’t vary, you can’t… you have to stick to the dogma, you have to stick to the doctrine. And that’s not good for people.” Louis highlights the risks of groupthink and the importance of open debate.

• The Power of Kindness - “When you treat them with kindness and instead of shouting back at them or hurling abuse back… see something bigger than what they’re in is when you treat them with kindness…” Louis discusses how treating people with kindness can be more effective than aggression in changing their views.

• Louis’ Approach to Documentary Filmmaking - “I think in that sense, you’re very unique in the way you approach documentary filmmaking.” Louis’ guest praises his measured and intelligent approach to storytelling, highlighting his ability to present complex ideas in a respectful and empathetic manner.

• The Scientology Debacle - “You’re talking about a guy who was in it for two plus decades. He left and he’s sort of coming clean about all the stupid shit that he did when he was in there.” Louis discusses the example of Marty Rathbun, a former high-ranking Scientologist who has spoken out against the organization.

• Louis’ Style vs. Scientology’s - “When you see people that are chasing after someone because they’re trying to communicate about something like you, who’s doing it super respectfully… what you have is a bunch of people that are trying to defend a bad idea and defend it with aggression.” Louis highlights the contrast between his respectful approach and the aggressive behavior of those defending Scientology.

What to Do

• “Treat others with kindness and empathy, even when disagreeing” - This advice is given by Louis in response to another speaker’s question about how to approach people who hold extreme or opposing views. Louis emphasizes that treating others with kindness can help short-circuit their beliefs and allow them to see something bigger than what they’re in.

• “Don’t become a mirror image of whatever they’re projecting” - This advice is also given by Louis, highlighting the importance of not reinforcing others’ negative views or emotions. Instead, Louis suggests responding with kindness and respect.

• “Approach disagreements with an open mind and a willingness to listen” - The conversation highlights the value of approaching disagreements with an open mind and a willingness to listen. This allows for more constructive discussions and can help people see different perspectives.

• “Practice what you preach” - The speaker who mentions this advice emphasizes its importance in building trust and credibility, particularly when it comes to promoting positive values or behaviors.

What to Get

• Scientology The Fundamentals of Thought by L. Ron Hubbard - Amazon

• Going Clear: Scientology, Hollywood, and the Prison of Belief by Lawrence Wright - Amazon

• Memoirs of a Scientology Warrior by Mark “Marty” Rathbun - Amazon

• The Call of the Weird: Encounters with Survivalists, Porn Stars, Alien Killers, and Ike Turner by Louis Theroux - Amazon

Summary

In this fascinating podcast episode, the host engages in a thoughtful and respectful discussion with an individual who has made documentary films about various topics, including Scientology. The conversation starts with a quote from Friedrich Nietzsche’s famous phrase “When you look into the abyss, the abyss looks all too into you.” The guest explains that he was trying to convey the idea of not becoming like those we are criticizing or fighting against.

The discussion takes a fascinating turn as they talk about dealing with bullies and enemies. The guest emphasizes the importance of treating people with kindness and respect, even if they hold opposing views or have been involved in oppressive regimes. He shares his experiences with documentary filmmaking and how he has approached sensitive topics with empathy and understanding.

One of the most interesting points raised during the conversation is the concept of groupthink and ideologies becoming problematic when we can’t escape them. The guest explains that people often become trapped in their earliest ideology, making it difficult to vary or question the dogma. This leads to suppression of open debate and the need to defend a bad idea with aggression.

The host then shares his own experiences with making documentaries about extreme religious beliefs, such as the Westboro Baptist Church. He notes that treating people with kindness and respect is often what allows them to see something bigger than their current views and ultimately escape their problematic ideologies.

Throughout the conversation, the tone remains respectful and thoughtful, highlighting the importance of approaching sensitive topics with empathy and understanding. The guest’s unique approach to documentary filmmaking and his emphasis on kindness and respect make for a compelling listen.