#1368 - Edward Snowden

At a Glance

• Government Lawsuit Against His Book - “But the day that the book came out, the government hit me with a lawsuit. And they hit the publisher of the books with a lawsuit, because they don’t want to see books like this get written. They especially don’t want to see books like this get read”. Snowden highlights the ongoing legal and governmental challenges he faces for sharing his story and the lengths to which the government will go to suppress certain narratives.

• Cheney’s Post-9/11 Policies - “What he did was he took that little dial on what we’re not allowed to do, and he changed it all the way until it broke and snapped off, and then there was nothing that we couldn’t do anymore”. Snowden criticizes former Vice President Dick Cheney’s policies after 9/11, describing them as a pivotal shift towards unchecked governmental power and surveillance.

• Celebrity Status and Privacy - “And they’ll come up to me and they’re like, are you Snowden? And I’m like, whoa. That’s pretty impressive. I’d say, yeah. It’s nice to meet you. I’ve never had a negative interaction from being recognized. But for me, not because I’m a privacy advocate, I would much rather go unrecognized”. Snowden reflects on his unexpected celebrity status and the irony of being recognized frequently despite being an advocate for privacy.

• Data Exploitation by Companies - “It’s not data that’s being exploited. It’s people that are being exploited. It’s not data that’s being manipulated. It’s you that’s being manipulated”. He emphasizes that the exploitation by companies and governments is not just about data but about manipulating individuals’ lives, shedding light on the deeper implications of mass surveillance.

Importance of Careful Disclosure - “Nobody has been hurt as a result of these disclosures, because everyone who was involved in them was so careful. We wanted to maximize the public benefit while mitigating the potential risks. I think we did a pretty good job”. Snowden addresses the criticism of his disclosures, asserting that the careful approach taken ensured no harm was done, thus defending the ethical stance of his actions.

What to Do

• Securing Personal Privacy - Snowden’s preference for using a desktop over mobile devices due to security reasons could be seen as advice for individuals concerned about personal privacy and security, suggesting they might consider similar choices to enhance their own data security.

• Engagement in Serious Discussions - Snowden discusses the value of platforms that allow for nuanced and detailed discussions, which can be seen as advice to seek out or engage in media formats that allow for more in-depth understanding and conversation about complex issues, rather than settling for simplified media soundbites.

• Critical Approach to Media - Snowden criticizes traditional media’s limitations and praises long-form discussion formats. This can be interpreted as advice to critically assess the sources of one’s information and to value in-depth analysis over superficial coverage.

• Awareness and Action on Privacy Rights - Through his discussion on the surveillance activities post-9/11, Snowden implicitly advises the necessity for awareness of government actions and advocacy for privacy rights and government accountability, suggesting that individuals should be proactive in understanding and potentially contesting these practices.

What to Get

• “Permanent Record” – Edward Snowden https://amzn.to/4bW5jcw

• Desktop Computer - Snowden mentions using a desktop for security reasons, indicating his preference for desktop computers over mobile devices due to enhanced security features suitable for his needs. https://amzn.to/4bW5jcw

Summary

This dicey episode on Joe Rogan’s podcast features a detailed and enlightening conversation between Edward Snowden and Joe Rogan, touching on a range of sensitive and provocative topics. Edward Snowden discusses his motivations for leaking classified information, highlighting the government’s surveillance activities post-9/11. He elaborates on the ethical and legal dilemmas he faced while working at the CIA and NSA. Snowden criticizes the U.S. government’s violation of both constitutional rights and human rights, emphasizing the unchecked power of surveillance agencies. This discussion raises significant questions about privacy, government accountability, and the ethical implications of mass surveillance.

In a lighter segment of the conversation, Snowden and Rogan discuss the possibility of Snowden starting a YouTube channel, humorously exploring how it might help him connect with a wider audience despite his controversial status. This segment includes laughs and a lighter tone, providing a break from the intense topics of government surveillance and civil liberties.

The conversation also veers into criticisms of the media’s handling of serious discussions. Snowden points out the limitations of traditional media formats, which often restrict complex discussions to simplistic soundbites. He praises the podcast format for allowing more nuanced and detailed discussions, indicating a strong endorsement for long-form dialogue over traditional media’s often superficial coverage.

Throughout the conversation, there are moments of agreement, particularly on the inadequacies of the media and the government’s overreach in surveillance. The discussion is punctuated by humor, particularly in the proposal of a YouTube venture and casual banter about the podcast’s sponsors, which lightens the mood amidst serious discourse.

In sum, this conversation offers deep insights into Snowden’s views and experiences with government surveillance, the ethical considerations of whistleblowing, and the potential for alternative media to provide a platform for more substantial discussions. The transcript is rich with information that could support an informed discussion on these critical and contemporary issues.