#1073 - Steven Pinker

At a Glance

• Misconceptions About the Alt-Right - “A lot of people who are ignorant of the alt-right equate them with the skinheads and the neo-Nazis carrying the tiki torches. But I was referring strictly to the alt-right from its origin in internet discussion groups”. Steven Pinker clarifies his comments on the alt-right, emphasizing the distinction between the intellectual origins of the movement and its more extreme factions, and highlighting the misinterpretations that can arise from such distinctions.

• Taboo Topics and Intellectual Discourse - “Because of the various taboos in mainstream intellectual culture, there are certain things that are just kind of not discussable. But then when people in the alt-right discover them, they feel tremendously empowered”. Pinker discusses how intellectual taboos prevent open discussion on certain topics, which can lead to extremist groups feeling validated when they address these subjects, underscoring the need for open and balanced discourse.

• Differences Between Men and Women - “There are average differences between men and women in a lot of psychological traits. But as soon as you come across the fact that men and women on average are different, you also come across the fact that men and women overlap in a lot of these traits”. Pinker addresses the sensitive topic of gender differences, explaining that while average differences exist, there is significant overlap, and these distinctions should not be used to make broad generalizations about individuals.

• The Impact of Outrage Culture on Intellectual Discourse - “These mobs of outrage can corrupt any kind of intelligent discourse… subtle discussions, discussions that involve nuance, like complicated issues that are – they’re complex”. Pinker highlights the detrimental effects of outrage culture on meaningful discussions, noting that complex and nuanced topics cannot be effectively communicated through simplistic and sensationalized reactions.

• Evolution of Cooperation and Niceness - “We’re moral animals to the extent that we have reputations… if you do something that harms me and I threaten revenge, then people can kind of settle into cooperation”. Pinker delves into the evolutionary basis for cooperation and niceness, explaining how reputations and the threat of reciprocity encourage cooperative behavior and social harmony.

What to Do

• Handling Controversial Topics - Pinker advises on the importance of discussing taboo or controversial subjects openly to prevent extremist groups from monopolizing these topics. He suggests that bringing such discussions into the open would allow for more balanced perspectives and counterarguments, reducing the chance of extreme interpretations gaining ground.

• Behavior in Social Media - There is a general discussion about the responsible use of social media. One speaker reflects on the need for balance and self-control when using social media, mentioning that they try to limit their time on platforms to avoid negative impacts on their personal life.

• Reading and Productivity - Steven Pinker talks about reading and writing productivity, indirectly suggesting that limiting distractions (like social media) can help one focus on more intellectually enriching activities like reading and writing. This is derived from an anecdote about a student surprised by how much Pinker reads and writes, hinting that he likely achieves this by not spending time on platforms like Facebook.

What to Get

• “Enlightenment Now: The Case for Reason, Science, Humanism, and Progress” – Steven Pinker https://amzn.to/3Vo73En

• “Rationality: What It Is, Why It Seems Scarce, Why It Matters” – Steven Pinker https://amzn.to/3x4Ul5y

• “The Sense of Style: The Thinking Person’s Guide to Writing in the 21st Century” – Steven Pinker https://amzn.to/3Vqhnf2

Summary

In this deeply engaging podcast episode, Joe Rogan and Steven Pinker explore a range of controversial and intellectual topics, including political correctness, gender differences, and the dynamics of social media. Get ready for a thought-provoking conversation that will make you rethink some of today’s hottest issues!

The discussion kicks off with Steven Pinker clarifying his position on the alt-right and political correctness. He talks about how his views were misinterpreted, leading to backlash, and emphasizes the complexities of discussing taboo subjects like gender differences. Pinker argues that intellectual circles often avoid these topics due to political correctness, which ironically empowers fringe groups when they discover these undiscussed issues. He stresses that the lack of open debate prevents a balanced understanding and can lead to extreme conclusions.

One of the key points Pinker makes is about the tension between promoting equality and acknowledging biological or psychological differences without discrimination. He believes that avoiding discussions about average differences between genders actually fuels misunderstanding and empowers groups who feel marginalized or silenced by mainstream culture.

The conversation then shifts to the impact of social media on intellectual discussions and public discourse. Pinker critiques how complex debates are often reduced to simplistic soundbites on social media, amplifying outrage without nuance. He draws historical parallels to past moral panics over new technologies, suggesting that social media might eventually stabilize as norms and etiquettes develop.

Throughout the episode, there are moments of humor and agreement that lighten the serious topics. Both Pinker and Rogan laugh at the absurdities in social reactions and agree on the importance of fairness and recognizing individual differences beyond group averages.

This rich conversation offers listeners a deeper understanding of Pinker’s views and the broader social and psychological phenomena influencing public and academic debates today. It’s packed with insights, humor, and thoughtful reflections, making it a must-listen for anyone interested in the complexities of modern society.